POST UPDATED 12/10/09 – Scroll to the bottom of the article for the latest…
Vodafone, oh Vodafone, why do you upset me so?
Regular readers of my work will know that I have an ongoing love affair with Vodafone UK, or ‘Big Red’ as I affectionately call her.
We’ve had our ups, our downs and our fallings-out, but over the years we’ve grown to appreciate our mutual quirks and subsequent relationship demands. Lo and verily, today we have another… hurdle to overcome.
Some of you may remember me wondering just where my handset of the moment, the N86, would land when it reached these shores. I speculated that it would be land on the lap of Big Red, but alas they passed and plumped instead for the N97.
Ah well.
So far, so what eh?
Being the Nokia aficionado that I am however, I wasn’t going to let a small thing like no carrier support prevent me from owning my handset of choice, so I promptly went out and bought one.
End of story, right? Wrong.
Thing is, among the myriad of reasons for me having been a Vodafone customer for the best part of 15yrs, one of them – today at least – is its home portal, currently going under the name of Vodafone Live!
It’s through this portal that I find music, games and mainly, my train times. I don’t drive and when I make plans, I keep them. I often plan my journeys with an almost military-like precision and Vodafone ‘My Trains’ is an invaluable service that I use pretty much every day, without fail.
From here I may choose to visit different parts of the Live! service… but this particular saved bookmark is nearly always my jumping off point.
Now, look at these two pictures….
Something’s wrong with the one on the right, right? Of course there is.
Even worse though is this, the Vodafone Live Homepage:
Both pages are from http://live.vodafone.com, both are connected using the Vodafone Live APN. The only difference is the handset I used; my old N95 8GB is on the left and on the right, my beloved N86.
I asked @VodafoneUK about a possible fix on Twitter, to which they replied (over three tweets):
Using the WAP access point will give you best chance of it rendering properly however it maybe a case of it not being Vodafone Live! compatible if it’s not rendering normally through the WAP access point. It may be worth posting your settings on the eForum to make sure everything is set up as much as it can be bearing in mind the N86 isn’t a phone we stock. Thanks.
The first part is fine. Naturally I’d check to make sure I was using VF Live as the default access point. I did. I am. The latter part, ‘bear in mind isn’t a phone we stock’… hmm. This was backed up and re-iterated by a couple of Vodafone staffers who also said ‘we don’t support phones we don’t range’.
This is also fine. A perfectly justifiable reason for not rendering your web pages. However, to me at least, this is EXACTLY the reason that you should be doing just that for these devices. Here I am, with a T-Mobile exclusive device (for argument’s sake) and I’m looking for a new network. I decide on Vodafone and sign on for a SIM-only deal. Then I discover that my phone isn’t supported on their webpages, so I decide to go somewhere else.
You see where I’m going with this, right?
The N86 is a similar screen size, build and design to the not-too-shabby (and Vodafone supported) Nokia N85. If it’s a simple case of switching the user agent* sniffer to present the N85 screens for the N86, then this is not a big job. Nor is it complex. Quick fix. Done.
*For the uninitiated, a user agent is basically the identifier string for the browser that you use when you browse the web (mobile or otherwise). For instance, the user agent string for the N85 looks something like this:
NokiaN85-1: Mozilla/5.0 (SymbianOS/9.3; U; Series60/3.2 NokiaN85-1/11.047; Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 ) AppleWebKit/413 (KHTML, like Gecko) Safari/413
Whereas the N86 user agent string looks a little something like this:
NokiaN86:Â Mozilla/5.0 (SymbianOS/9.3; Series60/3.2 NokiaN86-1/10.086;; Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 ) AppleWebKit/525 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.0 BrowserNG/7.1.13380
(Thanks to friend of Really Mobile Richard Hyndman, CTO at Mippin for that extra detail)
A final thought…
Back in my youth, while working through college, I had a friend who spent a his time working at a rather large chain of fast-food restaurants. The Manager of which had a policy that meant that for any food voucher or special offer coupon presented at the counter, no matter for which chain (be it for McDonald’s, Burger King, Wimpy etc), if they could fulfil it then they would honour the voucher.
As he told me at the time:
“It is better to please someone else’s customer who might come back another day than to tell them you’re not interested and never see them again.”
————- UPDATED – 12/10/09 ————-
A member of @VodafoneUK’s PR team has literally just been in touch to let us know that the Vodafone Live! pages have now indeed been provisioned for the Nokia N86.
Here’s a screen shot to prove it…
Congrats Vodafone, you’ve just earned 20 ReallyMobile points.
Keep it up! 🙂
whatleydude.com 
This was always the case with my N82 that I used on Vodafone too. Very frustrating.
At least now I know why it never worked, thanks James.
The point about VF now pushing their SIM only plans, is very pertinent, and should really be sorted sharpish.
I recently moved from O2 sim only to Vodafone sim only and had exactly the same problem with my N82. When contacting Vodafone they offered no help with data, mms settings etc After being with O2 sim only for 2+ yrs I can safely say the sim free service beats Vodafones hands down with support issues and online billing.
If it wasnt for O2’s slow network I would be back in a flash
This was always the case with my N82 that I used on Vodafone too. Very frustrating.
At least now I know why it never worked, thanks James.
The point about VF now pushing their SIM only plans, is very pertinent, and should really be sorted sharpish.
I recently moved from O2 sim only to Vodafone sim only and had exactly the same problem with my N82. When contacting Vodafone they offered no help with data, mms settings etc After being with O2 sim only for 2+ yrs I can safely say the sim free service beats Vodafones hands down with support issues and online billing.
If it wasnt for O2’s slow network I would be back in a flash
it does kinda suck, seems its not getting the css, so isnt formatting the html.
i presume the useragent picks which style sheer to render it with, you would expect it to
default to some lowest common platform if none present – rather than nothing at all.
but i HATE operator portals anyway, they kinda work as book marks
but i dont want endless flirt sites pushed in my face thanks.
book mark:
http://m.traintimes.org.uk/wimbledon/london instead
or
http://m.traintimes.org.uk/wim/wat
for short 🙂
do you buy music from an operator portal?
it does kinda suck, seems its not getting the css, so isnt formatting the html.
i presume the useragent picks which style sheer to render it with, you would expect it to
default to some lowest common platform if none present – rather than nothing at all.
but i HATE operator portals anyway, they kinda work as book marks
but i dont want endless flirt sites pushed in my face thanks.
book mark:
http://m.traintimes.org.uk/wimbledon/london instead
or
http://m.traintimes.org.uk/wim/wat
for short 🙂
do you buy music from an operator portal?
Can’t believe we’re citing a McDonald’s manager as a source of mobile-industry insight. But we are. And he is.
Should be no excuse for this at all really. It almost seems to me like they are actually intentionally breaking the site for non Voda range phones. If it works on a N97 then by just doing nothing at all it should by rights work on a N86.
Should be no excuse for this at all really. It almost seems to me like they are actually intentionally breaking the site for non Voda range phones. If it works on a N97 then by just doing nothing at all it should by rights work on a N86.
I agree that all the networks should consider people transferring with an unlocked phone to a SIM only deal; these customers shouldn’t be treated as second class citizens. I can understand the need to test the device to ensure the best possible experience, but surely Vodafone could at least offer a generic mobile optimised site for these customers.
At least 3UK are starting to listen to this issue, and are now starting to roll out support for their 3UK-specific apps (Skype, WLM) on non-3UK supplied phones…
Completely agree… many much smaller firms are able to deliver a usable mobile experience to a range of handsets. Even this site does it in a very simple way.
Why don’t operators?
What’s worse, this is not new. I once had a super little Nokia 6820 from Singapore that had a completely screwed up homepage until I flashed it to the UK firmware. (In other words, the UA ‘support’ is extremely tightly defined.)But now mix in an additional dimension: that of third-party content. What are the chances of that working (via Vodafone’s transcoder, for example), if the first-party content is so screwed?Whither an carrier-arbitrated mobile web if this is really as smart as pipes get?
What’s worse, this is not new. I once had a super little Nokia 6820 from Singapore that had a completely screwed up homepage until I flashed it to the UK firmware. (In other words, the UA ‘support’ is extremely tightly defined.)But now mix in an additional dimension: that of third-party content. What are the chances of that working (via Vodafone’s transcoder, for example), if the first-party content is so screwed?Whither an carrier-arbitrated mobile web if this is really as smart as pipes get?
As regular readers will know, I work for Vodafone Group – but I don’t speak for them.
However, I was the Production Manager for Vodafone live in the UK for two years, and Product Manager for Portals at Vodafone Group for a similar length. So I speak with some knowledge.
Theses comments haven’t been checked, approved, censored or filtered by anyone at Vodafone. If you buy or sell shares based on my ramblings, you’re a fool 🙂
There are several reasons why non-ranged phones like the N86 don’t work with live.
Firstly, Vodafone UK don’t stock the phone. Sounds like a minor problem but it presents them with all sorts of challenges. Not least buying the (unsubsidised) device. Then another one with updated firmware (have to keep the old firmware to test that with new features).
Then there’s testing. Every extra device and firmware variation slows down the testing and acceptance time for any new feature or release.
We still support the Sharp GX-10 – the very first live phone from about 6 years ago. True, it doesn’t support mobile TV, but all the services that it can support need to be tested on it for the frightening amount of customers who can’t/won’t upgrade.
So, as you point out, why not just assume the N86 is basically the same as the N85?
Well, what’s the difference between the N95 (original firmware) and the N96? Surely they can’t be that different…?
As you know, they are. That presents us with all sorts of rendering challenges – what resolution do images have to be in order to stay readable? Can the device handle this bit of CSS, that bit of JavaScript?
Take a look at this list of Webkit “support” on mobile. http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2009/10/there_is_no_web.html Similar handsets yield wildly different results.
Then, there’s content delivery.
Does the N86 support a higher bit-rate for music than the N85? Or do we serve up a low quality file we know will work but sounds rubbish?
What’s the screen resolution? Do we send a wallpaper that’s too big or too small?
Do games and application work on it? They’ve been rigorously tested on the N85 – so will they work on the N86? Sure?
In all those cases, you’ve got an angry customer ringing up demanding a refund. That costs Vodafone money.
So, should we show links to the games, music, apps etc? Or should we remove them? Or should we show them, but on download present a warning that what you’ve bought may not work and there are no refunds if we don’t support your phone?
Do we create a “generic” version of the portal? If so – do we make it lowest common denominator? Well, that’s what you’re seeing. A text only page that should be viewable by all. Except the N86 obviously has an issue rendering it…
Or, do we stick up a banner saying “Why not pop along to a Vodafone store and buy a compatible handset”?
As you can see, there are a myriad of issues Vodafone would have to deal with. Our latest corporate report will tell you how many million mobile internet customers we have. Is it worth our shareholders’ money to support a few dozen* N86s ported over from Orange? (*I have no idea how many are on the Vodafone UK network.)
Yes, an N86 customer may buy some content – but enough to make it worth our while? They may choose to get a compatible phone next time – or they may decide to import a Chinese no-name iPhone rip-off with a lousy browser and kick up a fuss when it doesn’t work.
However, were taking a different approach with the replacement for live, Vodafone My Web – http://www.vodafone.com/myweb – we’re allowing practically any phone to access it. As you pointed out yesterday, it’s still buggy on the N86 – and for many of the same reasons. That’s why we’re not automatically redirecting all traffic to the site – yet.
Here’s a good test – see how many different makes and models of phones access http://thereallymobileproject.com – now buy and test all of them to ensure you get a good & consistent experience on everything from an unreleased smartphone to a GX-10.
In fact, I can guarantee that even on a relatively simple site like yours, there will be rendering bug/quirks on some of the handsets you have about your person. However, no one is going to ring you up demanding a refund if something goes wrong with TRMP.
Device compatibility is hard – products like WURFL & DeviceAtlas make some problems go away, but ultimately, it’s a difficult problem that can’t be solved without a massive time & money investment.
Could Vodafone live handle it better? Undoubtedly. That’s why we’re moving to My Web.
Much like your McDonald’s manager, My Web will support non-ranged handsets. It will also support non-Vodafone customers. So if you’re, say, a T-Orang3 customer with a Casio 5173i – you’ll be able to use our services.
T
(Written on a turbulent train, so please excuse any typos!)
Terence, I, for one, understand the pressures you’re under here :-)But that bottom right image makes no sense. As you say, carrier portals are highly complex… but they are also precisely specified and well designed.Unless there’s a document somewhere that says:”Requirement 4.7.11: Our homepage must look like a cryptic re-encoded URL for anyone that doesn’t have a precisely on-range device”…then I would say it’s a bug.If it didn’t occur to anyone to see what the page looked like on other high-end devices (and let’s be honest: that would have been strange, as non-portfolio devices often correspond to high-revenue, influential users), the unfortunate conclusion is that this behaviour is either a) by design, or b) short of some basic extra QA.Falling back to any sort of simple XHTML experience would have been something. Now you don’t have ‘an angry customer ringing up demanding a refund’, but ‘a bemused professional user writing incredulous blog posts, read by thousands’.At some point the C/B analysis crosses the same threshold.Anyway, looking forward to the 360 philosophy. That sounds, to some extent, more enlightened 😉
“Requirement 4.7.11: Our homepage must look like a cryptic re-encoded URL for anyone that doesn’t have a precisely on-range device” – you’ve been rifling through our bins again 😉
No, it shouldn’t look like that. As you can see from the train times images – it should be getting a basic version which we can ensure works on every phone. So, yes, the front page for N86 should be filed under “bugs”.
This is the first time in 6 years, to my knowledge, that C/B have crossed over.
T
(My opinions are my own and not those of any corporate behemoth)
Point taken, but there are plenty of smarter ways to test devices and handle the complexity of different firmware than just going out and buying them all…
And if the real answer is “we don’t support non-vodafone handsets” why not make that clear to the SIM-only customers who are told they can bring their own handsets… or present that message to the user when they try to access the portal.
I can see why making every service available to every handset is not a worthwhile commercial activity, but if non-operators can manage even a fall-back to a crude text-based service with a bare-minimum spec (which is what we do) then I suspect Vodafone can muster at least that.
I’m sure it’s not malicious – just the propositions people creating products that the technology doesn’t support. I look forward to the ‘better way’ of Voda 360, but if it wasn’t a reasonable expectation of Vodafone Live, what’s changed now?
(but thanks for commenting – do appreciate the benefit of your views on this)
To make the inevitable car analogy, if you buy your car from Ford but fit after-market wheels – they can’t guarantee Ford tires will fit any more. Vodafone UK does what it can to support non-ranged handsets. Pop over to the Vodafone forums and you’ll see plenty of people getting the right settings etc.
However, I would agree that there needs to be a better “text-only” version of live.
Regarding implementing it. Without going in to all our internal structures – Vodafone live runs in UK, France, Germany, South Africa, Romania, Austria, Netherlands and a dozen other countries. I’m not saying that running a mobile portal is like dealing with the United Nations, but making changes can be “complex”.
Vodafone My Web is a completely new product specifically designed to work with as many handsets as possible.
T
(This is all my opinion and not that of any FTSE listed company)
But in this analogy Vodafone aren’t a car manufacturer they are a road! If I buy a car I expect to be able to drive it on any road. It’s not like James has turned up in a speedboat.
Mippin don’t have any issues supporting every handset, perhaps Vodafone’s acquisitions team should have a whip-round?
As regular readers will know, I work for Vodafone Group – but I don’t speak for them.
However, I was the Production Manager for Vodafone live in the UK for two years, and Product Manager for Portals at Vodafone Group for a similar length. So I speak with some knowledge.
Theses comments haven’t been checked, approved, censored or filtered by anyone at Vodafone. If you buy or sell shares based on my ramblings, you’re a fool 🙂
There are several reasons why non-ranged phones like the N86 don’t work with live.
Firstly, Vodafone UK don’t stock the phone. Sounds like a minor problem but it presents them with all sorts of challenges. Not least buying the (unsubsidised) device. Then another one with updated firmware (have to keep the old firmware to test that with new features).
Then there’s testing. Every extra device and firmware variation slows down the testing and acceptance time for any new feature or release.
We still support the Sharp GX-10 – the very first live phone from about 6 years ago. True, it doesn’t support mobile TV, but all the services that it can support need to be tested on it for the frightening amount of customers who can’t/won’t upgrade.
So, as you point out, why not just assume the N86 is basically the same as the N85?
Well, what’s the difference between the N95 (original firmware) and the N96? Surely they can’t be that different…?
As you know, they are. That presents us with all sorts of rendering challenges – what resolution do images have to be in order to stay readable? Can the device handle this bit of CSS, that bit of JavaScript?
Take a look at this list of Webkit “support” on mobile. http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2009/10/there_is_no_web.html Similar handsets yield wildly different results.
Then, there’s content delivery.
Does the N86 support a higher bit-rate for music than the N85? Or do we serve up a low quality file we know will work but sounds rubbish?
What’s the screen resolution? Do we send a wallpaper that’s too big or too small?
Do games and application work on it? They’ve been rigorously tested on the N85 – so will they work on the N86? Sure?
In all those cases, you’ve got an angry customer ringing up demanding a refund. That costs Vodafone money.
So, should we show links to the games, music, apps etc? Or should we remove them? Or should we show them, but on download present a warning that what you’ve bought may not work and there are no refunds if we don’t support your phone?
Do we create a “generic” version of the portal? If so – do we make it lowest common denominator? Well, that’s what you’re seeing. A text only page that should be viewable by all. Except the N86 obviously has an issue rendering it…
Or, do we stick up a banner saying “Why not pop along to a Vodafone store and buy a compatible handset”?
As you can see, there are a myriad of issues Vodafone would have to deal with. Our latest corporate report will tell you how many million mobile internet customers we have. Is it worth our shareholders’ money to support a few dozen* N86s ported over from Orange? (*I have no idea how many are on the Vodafone UK network.)
Yes, an N86 customer may buy some content – but enough to make it worth our while? They may choose to get a compatible phone next time – or they may decide to import a Chinese no-name iPhone rip-off with a lousy browser and kick up a fuss when it doesn’t work.
However, were taking a different approach with the replacement for live, Vodafone My Web – http://www.vodafone.com/myweb – we’re allowing practically any phone to access it. As you pointed out yesterday, it’s still buggy on the N86 – and for many of the same reasons. That’s why we’re not automatically redirecting all traffic to the site – yet.
Here’s a good test – see how many different makes and models of phones access http://thereallymobileproject.com – now buy and test all of them to ensure you get a good & consistent experience on everything from an unreleased smartphone to a GX-10.
In fact, I can guarantee that even on a relatively simple site like yours, there will be rendering bug/quirks on some of the handsets you have about your person. However, no one is going to ring you up demanding a refund if something goes wrong with TRMP.
Device compatibility is hard – products like WURFL & DeviceAtlas make some problems go away, but ultimately, it’s a difficult problem that can’t be solved without a massive time & money investment.
Could Vodafone live handle it better? Undoubtedly. That’s why we’re moving to My Web.
Much like your McDonald’s manager, My Web will support non-ranged handsets. It will also support non-Vodafone customers. So if you’re, say, a T-Orang3 customer with a Casio 5173i – you’ll be able to use our services.
T
(Written on a turbulent train, so please excuse any typos!)
Terence, I, for one, understand the pressures you’re under here :-)But that bottom right image makes no sense. As you say, carrier portals are highly complex… but they are also precisely specified and well designed.Unless there’s a document somewhere that says:”Requirement 4.7.11: Our homepage must look like a cryptic re-encoded URL for anyone that doesn’t have a precisely on-range device”…then I would say it’s a bug.If it didn’t occur to anyone to see what the page looked like on other high-end devices (and let’s be honest: that would have been strange, as non-portfolio devices often correspond to high-revenue, influential users), the unfortunate conclusion is that this behaviour is either a) by design, or b) short of some basic extra QA.Falling back to any sort of simple XHTML experience would have been something. Now you don’t have ‘an angry customer ringing up demanding a refund’, but ‘a bemused professional user writing incredulous blog posts, read by thousands’.At some point the C/B analysis crosses the same threshold.Anyway, looking forward to the 360 philosophy. That sounds, to some extent, more enlightened 😉
“Requirement 4.7.11: Our homepage must look like a cryptic re-encoded URL for anyone that doesn’t have a precisely on-range device” – you’ve been rifling through our bins again 😉
No, it shouldn’t look like that. As you can see from the train times images – it should be getting a basic version which we can ensure works on every phone. So, yes, the front page for N86 should be filed under “bugs”.
This is the first time in 6 years, to my knowledge, that C/B have crossed over.
T
(My opinions are my own and not those of any corporate behemoth)
Vodafone have always done this. It’s down to the firmware branding too. I am using a G1 at the moment on Vodafone and Live does work as its the same browser as the Magic. However on a N97 if its not a Vodafone branded phone you might be able to get onto Live but wont be able to download the Music Unlimited application as it will fail.
Hopefully Vodafone 360 will change this issue as I am a Vodafone customer too
This was always the case with my N82 that I used on Vodafone too. Very frustrating.At least now I know why it never worked, thanks James.The point about VF now pushing their SIM only plans, is very pertinent, and should really be sorted sharpish.
This was always the case with my N82 that I used on Vodafone too. Very frustrating.At least now I know why it never worked, thanks James.The point about VF now pushing their SIM only plans, is very pertinent, and should really be sorted sharpish.
This was always the case with my N82 that I used on Vodafone too. Very frustrating.At least now I know why it never worked, thanks James.The point about VF now pushing their SIM only plans, is very pertinent, and should really be sorted sharpish.
Hi James,
I can certainly appreciate the disappointment and frustration here and while both the Web Relations and eForum Teams are always happy to help our customers with pretty much any query there will always be limitations to what we can do in some cases.
In regard to the N86 and other phone not ranged by us Terence provides some great insight into some of the challenges we face with supporting any device on the market in conjunction with our services.
Hopefully once all the great new features which come under Vodafone 360 have been launched later this year you’ll then begin to enjoy better functionality with your phone on our network.
Thanks,
Lee
Web Relations Team
Vodafone UK
Hi Lee,
I definitely cant fault the service you personally provided me during all the issues I had with credit checks etc when signing up but what about data settings for SIM only customers?
When I enquired how I obtain these for an N82 I was simple told that the N82 was not supported by Vodafone and to look at the forums. After searching around I found the GPRS settings but am still experiencing issues with MMS and its got to the stage where I simply cant be bothered anymore which means lost revenues for Vodafone.
Vodafone should have a serious look at O2’s SIM Only offering. The online billing was smooth and easily understood but most importantly everytime I put my SIM card in a new handset the WAP, mobile web and MMS settings were pushed to me straight away…
Ed
Hi James,
I can certainly appreciate the disappointment and frustration here and while both the Web Relations and eForum Teams are always happy to help our customers with pretty much any query there will always be limitations to what we can do in some cases.
In regard to the N86 and other phone not ranged by us Terence provides some great insight into some of the challenges we face with supporting any device on the market in conjunction with our services.
Hopefully once all the great new features which come under Vodafone 360 have been launched later this year you’ll then begin to enjoy better functionality with your phone on our network.
Thanks,
Lee
Web Relations Team
Vodafone UK
Hi Lee,
I definitely cant fault the service you personally provided me during all the issues I had with credit checks etc when signing up but what about data settings for SIM only customers?
When I enquired how I obtain these for an N82 I was simple told that the N82 was not supported by Vodafone and to look at the forums. After searching around I found the GPRS settings but am still experiencing issues with MMS and its got to the stage where I simply cant be bothered anymore which means lost revenues for Vodafone.
Vodafone should have a serious look at O2’s SIM Only offering. The online billing was smooth and easily understood but most importantly everytime I put my SIM card in a new handset the WAP, mobile web and MMS settings were pushed to me straight away…
Ed
it does kinda suck, seems its not getting the css, so isnt formatting the html.i presume the useragent picks which style sheer to render it with, you would expect it to default to some lowest common platform if none present – rather than nothing at all.but i HATE operator portals anyway, they kinda work as book marksbut i dont want endless flirt sites pushed in my face thanks.book mark:http://m.traintimes.org.uk/wimbledon/london insteador http://m.traintimes.org.uk/wim/wat for short :)do you buy music from an operator portal?
it does kinda suck, seems its not getting the css, so isnt formatting the html.i presume the useragent picks which style sheer to render it with, you would expect it to default to some lowest common platform if none present – rather than nothing at all.but i HATE operator portals anyway, they kinda work as book marksbut i dont want endless flirt sites pushed in my face thanks.book mark:http://m.traintimes.org.uk/wimbledon/london insteador http://m.traintimes.org.uk/wim/wat for short :)do you buy music from an operator portal?
it does kinda suck, seems its not getting the css, so isnt formatting the html.i presume the useragent picks which style sheer to render it with, you would expect it to default to some lowest common platform if none present – rather than nothing at all.but i HATE operator portals anyway, they kinda work as book marksbut i dont want endless flirt sites pushed in my face thanks.book mark:http://m.traintimes.org.uk/wimbledon/london insteador http://m.traintimes.org.uk/wim/wat for short :)do you buy music from an operator portal?
it does kinda suck, seems its not getting the css, so isnt formatting the html.i presume the useragent picks which style sheer to render it with, you would expect it to default to some lowest common platform if none present – rather than nothing at all.but i HATE operator portals anyway, they kinda work as book marksbut i dont want endless flirt sites pushed in my face thanks.book mark:http://m.traintimes.org.uk/wimbledon/london insteador http://m.traintimes.org.uk/wim/wat for short :)do you buy music from an operator portal?
Can't believe we're citing a McDonald's manager as a source of mobile-industry insight. But we are. And he is.
Can't believe we're citing a McDonald's manager as a source of mobile-industry insight. But we are. And he is.
Can't believe we're citing a McDonald's manager as a source of mobile-industry insight. But we are. And he is.
Can't believe we're citing a McDonald's manager as a source of mobile-industry insight. But we are. And he is.
I recently moved from O2 sim only to Vodafone sim only and had exactly the same problem with my N82. When contacting Vodafone they offered no help with data, mms settings etc After being with O2 sim only for 2+ yrs I can safely say the sim free service beats Vodafones hands down with support issues and online billing.If it wasnt for O2's slow network I would be back in a flash
I recently moved from O2 sim only to Vodafone sim only and had exactly the same problem with my N82. When contacting Vodafone they offered no help with data, mms settings etc After being with O2 sim only for 2+ yrs I can safely say the sim free service beats Vodafones hands down with support issues and online billing.If it wasnt for O2's slow network I would be back in a flash
I recently moved from O2 sim only to Vodafone sim only and had exactly the same problem with my N82. When contacting Vodafone they offered no help with data, mms settings etc After being with O2 sim only for 2+ yrs I can safely say the sim free service beats Vodafones hands down with support issues and online billing.If it wasnt for O2's slow network I would be back in a flash
I recently moved from O2 sim only to Vodafone sim only and had exactly the same problem with my N82. When contacting Vodafone they offered no help with data, mms settings etc After being with O2 sim only for 2+ yrs I can safely say the sim free service beats Vodafones hands down with support issues and online billing.If it wasnt for O2's slow network I would be back in a flash
Should be no excuse for this at all really. It almost seems to me like they are actually intentionally breaking the site for non Voda range phones. If it works on a N97 then by just doing nothing at all it should by rights work on a N86.
Should be no excuse for this at all really. It almost seems to me like they are actually intentionally breaking the site for non Voda range phones. If it works on a N97 then by just doing nothing at all it should by rights work on a N86.
Should be no excuse for this at all really. It almost seems to me like they are actually intentionally breaking the site for non Voda range phones. If it works on a N97 then by just doing nothing at all it should by rights work on a N86.
Should be no excuse for this at all really. It almost seems to me like they are actually intentionally breaking the site for non Voda range phones. If it works on a N97 then by just doing nothing at all it should by rights work on a N86.
I agree that all the networks should consider people transferring with an unlocked phone to a SIM only deal; these customers shouldn't be treated as second class citizens. I can understand the need to test the device to ensure the best possible experience, but surely Vodafone could at least offer a generic mobile optimised site for these customers.At least 3UK are starting to listen to this issue, and are now starting to roll out support for their 3UK-specific apps (Skype, WLM) on non-3UK supplied phones…
I agree that all the networks should consider people transferring with an unlocked phone to a SIM only deal; these customers shouldn't be treated as second class citizens. I can understand the need to test the device to ensure the best possible experience, but surely Vodafone could at least offer a generic mobile optimised site for these customers.At least 3UK are starting to listen to this issue, and are now starting to roll out support for their 3UK-specific apps (Skype, WLM) on non-3UK supplied phones…
I agree that all the networks should consider people transferring with an unlocked phone to a SIM only deal; these customers shouldn't be treated as second class citizens. I can understand the need to test the device to ensure the best possible experience, but surely Vodafone could at least offer a generic mobile optimised site for these customers.At least 3UK are starting to listen to this issue, and are now starting to roll out support for their 3UK-specific apps (Skype, WLM) on non-3UK supplied phones…
Completely agree… many much smaller firms are able to deliver a usable mobile experience to a range of handsets. Even this site does it in a very simple way.Why don't operators?
Completely agree… many much smaller firms are able to deliver a usable mobile experience to a range of handsets. Even this site does it in a very simple way.Why don't operators?
Completely agree… many much smaller firms are able to deliver a usable mobile experience to a range of handsets. Even this site does it in a very simple way.Why don't operators?
Completely agree… many much smaller firms are able to deliver a usable mobile experience to a range of handsets. Even this site does it in a very simple way.Why don't operators?
oh i know this case from myself lol ..
and guess what, Vodafone Austria gave me the same lame Excuses, so i jumped Ship to T-Mob few Months ago (well, the “device not on stock, so see how you get along with it yourself”-problem was one of the smaller ones).. not really a big fan of Vodafone anymore
oh i know this case from myself lol ..
and guess what, Vodafone Austria gave me the same lame Excuses, so i jumped Ship to T-Mob few Months ago (well, the “device not on stock, so see how you get along with it yourself”-problem was one of the smaller ones).. not really a big fan of Vodafone anymore
What's worse, this is not new. I once had a super little Nokia 6820 from Singapore that had a completely screwed up homepage until I flashed it to the UK firmware. (In other words, the UA 'support' is extremely tightly defined.)But now mix in an additional dimension: that of third-party content. What are the chances of that working (via Vodafone's transcoder, for example), if the first-party content is so screwed?Whither an carrier-arbitrated mobile web if this is really as smart as pipes get?
What's worse, this is not new. I once had a super little Nokia 6820 from Singapore that had a completely screwed up homepage until I flashed it to the UK firmware. (In other words, the UA 'support' is extremely tightly defined.)But now mix in an additional dimension: that of third-party content. What are the chances of that working (via Vodafone's transcoder, for example), if the first-party content is so screwed?Whither an carrier-arbitrated mobile web if this is really as smart as pipes get?
What's worse, this is not new. I once had a super little Nokia 6820 from Singapore that had a completely screwed up homepage until I flashed it to the UK firmware. (In other words, the UA 'support' is extremely tightly defined.)But now mix in an additional dimension: that of third-party content. What are the chances of that working (via Vodafone's transcoder, for example), if the first-party content is so screwed?Whither an carrier-arbitrated mobile web if this is really as smart as pipes get?
What's worse, this is not new. I once had a super little Nokia 6820 from Singapore that had a completely screwed up homepage until I flashed it to the UK firmware. (In other words, the UA 'support' is extremely tightly defined.)But now mix in an additional dimension: that of third-party content. What are the chances of that working (via Vodafone's transcoder, for example), if the first-party content is so screwed?Whither an carrier-arbitrated mobile web if this is really as smart as pipes get?
As regular readers will know, I work for Vodafone Group – but I don't speak for them. However, I was the Production Manager for Vodafone live in the UK for two years, and Product Manager for Portals at Vodafone Group for a similar length. So I speak with some knowledge. Theses comments haven't been checked, approved, censored or filtered by anyone at Vodafone. If you buy or sell shares based on my ramblings, you're a fool :-)There are several reasons why non-ranged phones like the N86 don't work with live. Firstly, Vodafone UK don't stock the phone. Sounds like a minor problem but it presents them with all sorts of challenges. Not least buying the (unsubsidised) device. Then another one with updated firmware (have to keep the old firmware to test that with new features). Then there's testing. Every extra device and firmware variation slows down the testing and acceptance time for any new feature or release. We still support the Sharp GX-10 – the very first live phone from about 6 years ago. True, it doesn't support mobile TV, but all the services that it can support need to be tested on it for the frightening amount of customers who can't/won't upgrade.So, as you point out, why not just assume the N86 is basically the same as the N85?Well, what's the difference between the N95 (original firmware) and the N96? Surely they can't be that different…?As you know, they are. That presents us with all sorts of rendering challenges – what resolution do images have to be in order to stay readable? Can the device handle this bit of CSS, that bit of JavaScript?Take a look at this list of Webkit “support” on mobile. http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2009/10… Similar handsets yield wildly different results.Then, there's content delivery. Does the N86 support a higher bit-rate for music than the N85? Or do we serve up a low quality file we know will work but sounds rubbish?What's the screen resolution? Do we send a wallpaper that's too big or too small?Do games and application work on it? They've been rigorously tested on the N85 – so will they work on the N86? Sure?In all those cases, you've got an angry customer ringing up demanding a refund. That costs Vodafone money. So, should we show links to the games, music, apps etc? Or should we remove them? Or should we show them, but on download present a warning that what you've bought may not work and there are no refunds if we don't support your phone?Do we create a “generic” version of the portal? If so – do we make it lowest common denominator? Well, that's what you're seeing. A text only page that should be viewable by all. Except the N86 obviously has an issue rendering it… Or, do we stick up a banner saying “Why not pop along to a Vodafone store and buy a compatible handset”?As you can see, there are a myriad of issues Vodafone would have to deal with. Our latest corporate report will tell you how many million mobile internet customers we have. Is it worth our shareholders' money to support a few dozen* N86s ported over from Orange? (*I have no idea how many are on the Vodafone UK network.)Yes, an N86 customer may buy some content – but enough to make it worth our while? They may choose to get a compatible phone next time – or they may decide to import a Chinese no-name iPhone rip-off with a lousy browser and kick up a fuss when it doesn't work.However, were taking a different approach with the replacement for live, Vodafone My Web – http://www.vodafone.com/myweb – we're allowing practically any phone to access it. As you pointed out yesterday, it's still buggy on the N86 – and for many of the same reasons. That's why we're not automatically redirecting all traffic to the site – yet.Here's a good test – see how many different makes and models of phones access http://thereallymobileproject.com – now buy and test all of them to ensure you get a good & consistent experience on everything from an unreleased smartphone to a GX-10. In fact, I can guarantee that even on a relatively simple site like yours, there will be rendering bug/quirks on some of the handsets you have about your person. However, no one is going to ring you up demanding a refund if something goes wrong with TRMP.Device compatibility is hard – products like WURFL & DeviceAtlas make some problems go away, but ultimately, it's a difficult problem that can't be solved without a massive time & money investment. Could Vodafone live handle it better? Undoubtedly. That's why we're moving to My Web. Much like your McDonald's manager, My Web will support non-ranged handsets. It will also support non-Vodafone customers. So if you're, say, a T-Orang3 customer with a Casio 5173i – you'll be able to use our services.T(Written on a turbulent train, so please excuse any typos!)
As regular readers will know, I work for Vodafone Group – but I don't speak for them. However, I was the Production Manager for Vodafone live in the UK for two years, and Product Manager for Portals at Vodafone Group for a similar length. So I speak with some knowledge. Theses comments haven't been checked, approved, censored or filtered by anyone at Vodafone. If you buy or sell shares based on my ramblings, you're a fool :-)There are several reasons why non-ranged phones like the N86 don't work with live. Firstly, Vodafone UK don't stock the phone. Sounds like a minor problem but it presents them with all sorts of challenges. Not least buying the (unsubsidised) device. Then another one with updated firmware (have to keep the old firmware to test that with new features). Then there's testing. Every extra device and firmware variation slows down the testing and acceptance time for any new feature or release. We still support the Sharp GX-10 – the very first live phone from about 6 years ago. True, it doesn't support mobile TV, but all the services that it can support need to be tested on it for the frightening amount of customers who can't/won't upgrade.So, as you point out, why not just assume the N86 is basically the same as the N85?Well, what's the difference between the N95 (original firmware) and the N96? Surely they can't be that different…?As you know, they are. That presents us with all sorts of rendering challenges – what resolution do images have to be in order to stay readable? Can the device handle this bit of CSS, that bit of JavaScript?Take a look at this list of Webkit “support” on mobile. http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2009/10… Similar handsets yield wildly different results.Then, there's content delivery. Does the N86 support a higher bit-rate for music than the N85? Or do we serve up a low quality file we know will work but sounds rubbish?What's the screen resolution? Do we send a wallpaper that's too big or too small?Do games and application work on it? They've been rigorously tested on the N85 – so will they work on the N86? Sure?In all those cases, you've got an angry customer ringing up demanding a refund. That costs Vodafone money. So, should we show links to the games, music, apps etc? Or should we remove them? Or should we show them, but on download present a warning that what you've bought may not work and there are no refunds if we don't support your phone?Do we create a “generic” version of the portal? If so – do we make it lowest common denominator? Well, that's what you're seeing. A text only page that should be viewable by all. Except the N86 obviously has an issue rendering it… Or, do we stick up a banner saying “Why not pop along to a Vodafone store and buy a compatible handset”?As you can see, there are a myriad of issues Vodafone would have to deal with. Our latest corporate report will tell you how many million mobile internet customers we have. Is it worth our shareholders' money to support a few dozen* N86s ported over from Orange? (*I have no idea how many are on the Vodafone UK network.)Yes, an N86 customer may buy some content – but enough to make it worth our while? They may choose to get a compatible phone next time – or they may decide to import a Chinese no-name iPhone rip-off with a lousy browser and kick up a fuss when it doesn't work.However, were taking a different approach with the replacement for live, Vodafone My Web – http://www.vodafone.com/myweb – we're allowing practically any phone to access it. As you pointed out yesterday, it's still buggy on the N86 – and for many of the same reasons. That's why we're not automatically redirecting all traffic to the site – yet.Here's a good test – see how many different makes and models of phones access http://thereallymobileproject.com – now buy and test all of them to ensure you get a good & consistent experience on everything from an unreleased smartphone to a GX-10. In fact, I can guarantee that even on a relatively simple site like yours, there will be rendering bug/quirks on some of the handsets you have about your person. However, no one is going to ring you up demanding a refund if something goes wrong with TRMP.Device compatibility is hard – products like WURFL & DeviceAtlas make some problems go away, but ultimately, it's a difficult problem that can't be solved without a massive time & money investment. Could Vodafone live handle it better? Undoubtedly. That's why we're moving to My Web. Much like your McDonald's manager, My Web will support non-ranged handsets. It will also support non-Vodafone customers. So if you're, say, a T-Orang3 customer with a Casio 5173i – you'll be able to use our services.T(Written on a turbulent train, so please excuse any typos!)
As regular readers will know, I work for Vodafone Group – but I don't speak for them. However, I was the Production Manager for Vodafone live in the UK for two years, and Product Manager for Portals at Vodafone Group for a similar length. So I speak with some knowledge. Theses comments haven't been checked, approved, censored or filtered by anyone at Vodafone. If you buy or sell shares based on my ramblings, you're a fool :-)There are several reasons why non-ranged phones like the N86 don't work with live. Firstly, Vodafone UK don't stock the phone. Sounds like a minor problem but it presents them with all sorts of challenges. Not least buying the (unsubsidised) device. Then another one with updated firmware (have to keep the old firmware to test that with new features). Then there's testing. Every extra device and firmware variation slows down the testing and acceptance time for any new feature or release. We still support the Sharp GX-10 – the very first live phone from about 6 years ago. True, it doesn't support mobile TV, but all the services that it can support need to be tested on it for the frightening amount of customers who can't/won't upgrade.So, as you point out, why not just assume the N86 is basically the same as the N85?Well, what's the difference between the N95 (original firmware) and the N96? Surely they can't be that different…?As you know, they are. That presents us with all sorts of rendering challenges – what resolution do images have to be in order to stay readable? Can the device handle this bit of CSS, that bit of JavaScript?Take a look at this list of Webkit “support” on mobile. http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2009/10… Similar handsets yield wildly different results.Then, there's content delivery. Does the N86 support a higher bit-rate for music than the N85? Or do we serve up a low quality file we know will work but sounds rubbish?What's the screen resolution? Do we send a wallpaper that's too big or too small?Do games and application work on it? They've been rigorously tested on the N85 – so will they work on the N86? Sure?In all those cases, you've got an angry customer ringing up demanding a refund. That costs Vodafone money. So, should we show links to the games, music, apps etc? Or should we remove them? Or should we show them, but on download present a warning that what you've bought may not work and there are no refunds if we don't support your phone?Do we create a “generic” version of the portal? If so – do we make it lowest common denominator? Well, that's what you're seeing. A text only page that should be viewable by all. Except the N86 obviously has an issue rendering it… Or, do we stick up a banner saying “Why not pop along to a Vodafone store and buy a compatible handset”?As you can see, there are a myriad of issues Vodafone would have to deal with. Our latest corporate report will tell you how many million mobile internet customers we have. Is it worth our shareholders' money to support a few dozen* N86s ported over from Orange? (*I have no idea how many are on the Vodafone UK network.)Yes, an N86 customer may buy some content – but enough to make it worth our while? They may choose to get a compatible phone next time – or they may decide to import a Chinese no-name iPhone rip-off with a lousy browser and kick up a fuss when it doesn't work.However, were taking a different approach with the replacement for live, Vodafone My Web – http://www.vodafone.com/myweb – we're allowing practically any phone to access it. As you pointed out yesterday, it's still buggy on the N86 – and for many of the same reasons. That's why we're not automatically redirecting all traffic to the site – yet.Here's a good test – see how many different makes and models of phones access http://thereallymobileproject.com – now buy and test all of them to ensure you get a good & consistent experience on everything from an unreleased smartphone to a GX-10. In fact, I can guarantee that even on a relatively simple site like yours, there will be rendering bug/quirks on some of the handsets you have about your person. However, no one is going to ring you up demanding a refund if something goes wrong with TRMP.Device compatibility is hard – products like WURFL & DeviceAtlas make some problems go away, but ultimately, it's a difficult problem that can't be solved without a massive time & money investment. Could Vodafone live handle it better? Undoubtedly. That's why we're moving to My Web. Much like your McDonald's manager, My Web will support non-ranged handsets. It will also support non-Vodafone customers. So if you're, say, a T-Orang3 customer with a Casio 5173i – you'll be able to use our services.T(Written on a turbulent train, so please excuse any typos!)
As regular readers will know, I work for Vodafone Group – but I don't speak for them. However, I was the Production Manager for Vodafone live in the UK for two years, and Product Manager for Portals at Vodafone Group for a similar length. So I speak with some knowledge. Theses comments haven't been checked, approved, censored or filtered by anyone at Vodafone. If you buy or sell shares based on my ramblings, you're a fool :-)There are several reasons why non-ranged phones like the N86 don't work with live. Firstly, Vodafone UK don't stock the phone. Sounds like a minor problem but it presents them with all sorts of challenges. Not least buying the (unsubsidised) device. Then another one with updated firmware (have to keep the old firmware to test that with new features). Then there's testing. Every extra device and firmware variation slows down the testing and acceptance time for any new feature or release. We still support the Sharp GX-10 – the very first live phone from about 6 years ago. True, it doesn't support mobile TV, but all the services that it can support need to be tested on it for the frightening amount of customers who can't/won't upgrade.So, as you point out, why not just assume the N86 is basically the same as the N85?Well, what's the difference between the N95 (original firmware) and the N96? Surely they can't be that different…?As you know, they are. That presents us with all sorts of rendering challenges – what resolution do images have to be in order to stay readable? Can the device handle this bit of CSS, that bit of JavaScript?Take a look at this list of Webkit “support” on mobile. http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2009/10… Similar handsets yield wildly different results.Then, there's content delivery. Does the N86 support a higher bit-rate for music than the N85? Or do we serve up a low quality file we know will work but sounds rubbish?What's the screen resolution? Do we send a wallpaper that's too big or too small?Do games and application work on it? They've been rigorously tested on the N85 – so will they work on the N86? Sure?In all those cases, you've got an angry customer ringing up demanding a refund. That costs Vodafone money. So, should we show links to the games, music, apps etc? Or should we remove them? Or should we show them, but on download present a warning that what you've bought may not work and there are no refunds if we don't support your phone?Do we create a “generic” version of the portal? If so – do we make it lowest common denominator? Well, that's what you're seeing. A text only page that should be viewable by all. Except the N86 obviously has an issue rendering it… Or, do we stick up a banner saying “Why not pop along to a Vodafone store and buy a compatible handset”?As you can see, there are a myriad of issues Vodafone would have to deal with. Our latest corporate report will tell you how many million mobile internet customers we have. Is it worth our shareholders' money to support a few dozen* N86s ported over from Orange? (*I have no idea how many are on the Vodafone UK network.)Yes, an N86 customer may buy some content – but enough to make it worth our while? They may choose to get a compatible phone next time – or they may decide to import a Chinese no-name iPhone rip-off with a lousy browser and kick up a fuss when it doesn't work.However, were taking a different approach with the replacement for live, Vodafone My Web – http://www.vodafone.com/myweb – we're allowing practically any phone to access it. As you pointed out yesterday, it's still buggy on the N86 – and for many of the same reasons. That's why we're not automatically redirecting all traffic to the site – yet.Here's a good test – see how many different makes and models of phones access http://thereallymobileproject.com – now buy and test all of them to ensure you get a good & consistent experience on everything from an unreleased smartphone to a GX-10. In fact, I can guarantee that even on a relatively simple site like yours, there will be rendering bug/quirks on some of the handsets you have about your person. However, no one is going to ring you up demanding a refund if something goes wrong with TRMP.Device compatibility is hard – products like WURFL & DeviceAtlas make some problems go away, but ultimately, it's a difficult problem that can't be solved without a massive time & money investment. Could Vodafone live handle it better? Undoubtedly. That's why we're moving to My Web. Much like your McDonald's manager, My Web will support non-ranged handsets. It will also support non-Vodafone customers. So if you're, say, a T-Orang3 customer with a Casio 5173i – you'll be able to use our services.T(Written on a turbulent train, so please excuse any typos!)
We manage fine with a 2 person dev team using WUFL and our own historic data. If nothing can be done we degrade gracefully to a basic version.
We manage fine with a 2 person dev team using WUFL and our own historic data. If nothing can be done we degrade gracefully to a basic version.
UK Carriers are determined to ruin the mobile web for the foreseeable future, which I would like to rant about here but wont.
kind of serves you right for a) liking Vodafone so much and b) not using a handset which Voda supports, no? In an ideal world where carrier portals were properly open, perhaps you should be surprised but we live in the real world where the dysfunctional carrier still reigns supreme (for the time being anyway)
kind of serves you right for a) liking Vodafone so much and b) not using a handset which Voda supports, no? In an ideal world where carrier portals were properly open, perhaps you should be surprised but we live in the real world where the dysfunctional carrier still reigns supreme (for the time being anyway)
“Then another one with updated firmware (have to keep the old firmware to test that with new features).”
That must be why Vodafone’s Nokia firmware updates take so long (or never arrive).
“Then another one with updated firmware (have to keep the old firmware to test that with new features).”
That must be why Vodafone’s Nokia firmware updates take so long (or never arrive).
Vodafone have always done this. It's down to the firmware branding too. I am using a G1 at the moment on Vodafone and Live does work as its the same browser as the Magic. However on a N97 if its not a Vodafone branded phone you might be able to get onto Live but wont be able to download the Music Unlimited application as it will fail.Hopefully Vodafone 360 will change this issue as I am a Vodafone customer too
Vodafone have always done this. It's down to the firmware branding too. I am using a G1 at the moment on Vodafone and Live does work as its the same browser as the Magic. However on a N97 if its not a Vodafone branded phone you might be able to get onto Live but wont be able to download the Music Unlimited application as it will fail.Hopefully Vodafone 360 will change this issue as I am a Vodafone customer too
Vodafone have always done this. It's down to the firmware branding too. I am using a G1 at the moment on Vodafone and Live does work as its the same browser as the Magic. However on a N97 if its not a Vodafone branded phone you might be able to get onto Live but wont be able to download the Music Unlimited application as it will fail.Hopefully Vodafone 360 will change this issue as I am a Vodafone customer too
Terence, I, for one, understand the pressures you're under here :-)But that bottom right image makes no sense. As you say, carrier portals are highly complex… but they are also precisely specified and well designed.Unless there's a document somewhere that says:”Requirement 4.7.11: Our homepage must look like a cryptic re-encoded URL for anyone that doesn't have a precisely on-range device”…then I would say it's a bug.If it didn't occur to anyone to see what the page looked like on other high-end devices (and let's be honest: that would have been strange, as non-portfolio devices often correspond to high-revenue, influential users), the unfortunate conclusion is that this behaviour is either a) by design, or b) short of some basic extra QA.Falling back to any sort of simple XHTML experience would have been something. Now you don't have 'an angry customer ringing up demanding a refund', but 'a bemused professional user writing incredulous blog posts, read by thousands'.At some point the C/B analysis crosses the same threshold.Anyway, looking forward to the 360 philosophy. That sounds, to some extent, more enlightened 😉
Terence, I, for one, understand the pressures you're under here :-)But that bottom right image makes no sense. As you say, carrier portals are highly complex… but they are also precisely specified and well designed.Unless there's a document somewhere that says:”Requirement 4.7.11: Our homepage must look like a cryptic re-encoded URL for anyone that doesn't have a precisely on-range device”…then I would say it's a bug.If it didn't occur to anyone to see what the page looked like on other high-end devices (and let's be honest: that would have been strange, as non-portfolio devices often correspond to high-revenue, influential users), the unfortunate conclusion is that this behaviour is either a) by design, or b) short of some basic extra QA.Falling back to any sort of simple XHTML experience would have been something. Now you don't have 'an angry customer ringing up demanding a refund', but 'a bemused professional user writing incredulous blog posts, read by thousands'.At some point the C/B analysis crosses the same threshold.Anyway, looking forward to the 360 philosophy. That sounds, to some extent, more enlightened 😉
Terence, I, for one, understand the pressures you're under here :-)But that bottom right image makes no sense. As you say, carrier portals are highly complex… but they are also precisely specified and well designed.Unless there's a document somewhere that says:”Requirement 4.7.11: Our homepage must look like a cryptic re-encoded URL for anyone that doesn't have a precisely on-range device”…then I would say it's a bug.If it didn't occur to anyone to see what the page looked like on other high-end devices (and let's be honest: that would have been strange, as non-portfolio devices often correspond to high-revenue, influential users), the unfortunate conclusion is that this behaviour is either a) by design, or b) short of some basic extra QA.Falling back to any sort of simple XHTML experience would have been something. Now you don't have 'an angry customer ringing up demanding a refund', but 'a bemused professional user writing incredulous blog posts, read by thousands'.At some point the C/B analysis crosses the same threshold.Anyway, looking forward to the 360 philosophy. That sounds, to some extent, more enlightened 😉
Terence, I, for one, understand the pressures you're under here :-)But that bottom right image makes no sense. As you say, carrier portals are highly complex… but they are also precisely specified and well designed.Unless there's a document somewhere that says:”Requirement 4.7.11: Our homepage must look like a cryptic re-encoded URL for anyone that doesn't have a precisely on-range device”…then I would say it's a bug.If it didn't occur to anyone to see what the page looked like on other high-end devices (and let's be honest: that would have been strange, as non-portfolio devices often correspond to high-revenue, influential users), the unfortunate conclusion is that this behaviour is either a) by design, or b) short of some basic extra QA.Falling back to any sort of simple XHTML experience would have been something. Now you don't have 'an angry customer ringing up demanding a refund', but 'a bemused professional user writing incredulous blog posts, read by thousands'.At some point the C/B analysis crosses the same threshold.Anyway, looking forward to the 360 philosophy. That sounds, to some extent, more enlightened 😉
T-mobile do the same thing.
T-mobile do the same thing.
Point taken, but there are plenty of smarter ways to test devices and handle the complexity of different firmware than just going out and buying them all…And if the real answer is “we don't support non-vodafone handsets” why not make that clear to the SIM-only customers who are told they can bring their own handsets… or present that message to the user when they try to access the portal.I can see why making every service available to every handset is not a worthwhile commercial activity, but if non-operators can manage even a fall-back to a crude text-based service with a bare-minimum spec (which is what we do) then I suspect Vodafone can muster at least that.I'm sure it's not malicious – just the propositions people creating products that the technology doesn't support. I look forward to the 'better way' of Voda 360, but if it wasn't a reasonable expectation of Vodafone Live, what's changed now?(but thanks for commenting – do appreciate the benefit of your views on this)
Point taken, but there are plenty of smarter ways to test devices and handle the complexity of different firmware than just going out and buying them all…And if the real answer is “we don't support non-vodafone handsets” why not make that clear to the SIM-only customers who are told they can bring their own handsets… or present that message to the user when they try to access the portal.I can see why making every service available to every handset is not a worthwhile commercial activity, but if non-operators can manage even a fall-back to a crude text-based service with a bare-minimum spec (which is what we do) then I suspect Vodafone can muster at least that.I'm sure it's not malicious – just the propositions people creating products that the technology doesn't support. I look forward to the 'better way' of Voda 360, but if it wasn't a reasonable expectation of Vodafone Live, what's changed now?(but thanks for commenting – do appreciate the benefit of your views on this)
Point taken, but there are plenty of smarter ways to test devices and handle the complexity of different firmware than just going out and buying them all…And if the real answer is “we don't support non-vodafone handsets” why not make that clear to the SIM-only customers who are told they can bring their own handsets… or present that message to the user when they try to access the portal.I can see why making every service available to every handset is not a worthwhile commercial activity, but if non-operators can manage even a fall-back to a crude text-based service with a bare-minimum spec (which is what we do) then I suspect Vodafone can muster at least that.I'm sure it's not malicious – just the propositions people creating products that the technology doesn't support. I look forward to the 'better way' of Voda 360, but if it wasn't a reasonable expectation of Vodafone Live, what's changed now?(but thanks for commenting – do appreciate the benefit of your views on this)
Hi James,I can certainly appreciate the disappointment and frustration here and while both the Web Relations and eForum Teams are always happy to help our customers with pretty much any query there will always be limitations to what we can do in some cases. In regard to the N86 and other phone not ranged by us Terence provides some great insight into some of the challenges we face with supporting any device on the market in conjunction with our services.Hopefully once all the great new features which come under Vodafone 360 have been launched later this year you’ll then begin to enjoy better functionality with your phone on our network.Thanks,LeeWeb Relations TeamVodafone UK
Hi James,I can certainly appreciate the disappointment and frustration here and while both the Web Relations and eForum Teams are always happy to help our customers with pretty much any query there will always be limitations to what we can do in some cases. In regard to the N86 and other phone not ranged by us Terence provides some great insight into some of the challenges we face with supporting any device on the market in conjunction with our services.Hopefully once all the great new features which come under Vodafone 360 have been launched later this year you’ll then begin to enjoy better functionality with your phone on our network.Thanks,LeeWeb Relations TeamVodafone UK
Hi James,I can certainly appreciate the disappointment and frustration here and while both the Web Relations and eForum Teams are always happy to help our customers with pretty much any query there will always be limitations to what we can do in some cases. In regard to the N86 and other phone not ranged by us Terence provides some great insight into some of the challenges we face with supporting any device on the market in conjunction with our services.Hopefully once all the great new features which come under Vodafone 360 have been launched later this year you’ll then begin to enjoy better functionality with your phone on our network.Thanks,LeeWeb Relations TeamVodafone UK
Hi James,I can certainly appreciate the disappointment and frustration here and while both the Web Relations and eForum Teams are always happy to help our customers with pretty much any query there will always be limitations to what we can do in some cases. In regard to the N86 and other phone not ranged by us Terence provides some great insight into some of the challenges we face with supporting any device on the market in conjunction with our services.Hopefully once all the great new features which come under Vodafone 360 have been launched later this year you’ll then begin to enjoy better functionality with your phone on our network.Thanks,LeeWeb Relations TeamVodafone UK
“Requirement 4.7.11: Our homepage must look like a cryptic re-encoded URL for anyone that doesn't have a precisely on-range device” – you've been rifling through our bins again ;-)No, it shouldn't look like that. As you can see from the train times images – it should be getting a basic version which we can ensure works on every phone. So, yes, the front page for N86 should be filed under “bugs”.This is the first time in 6 years, to my knowledge, that C/B have crossed over. T(My opinions are my own and not those of any corporate behemoth)
“Requirement 4.7.11: Our homepage must look like a cryptic re-encoded URL for anyone that doesn't have a precisely on-range device” – you've been rifling through our bins again ;-)No, it shouldn't look like that. As you can see from the train times images – it should be getting a basic version which we can ensure works on every phone. So, yes, the front page for N86 should be filed under “bugs”.This is the first time in 6 years, to my knowledge, that C/B have crossed over. T(My opinions are my own and not those of any corporate behemoth)
“Requirement 4.7.11: Our homepage must look like a cryptic re-encoded URL for anyone that doesn't have a precisely on-range device” – you've been rifling through our bins again ;-)No, it shouldn't look like that. As you can see from the train times images – it should be getting a basic version which we can ensure works on every phone. So, yes, the front page for N86 should be filed under “bugs”.This is the first time in 6 years, to my knowledge, that C/B have crossed over. T(My opinions are my own and not those of any corporate behemoth)
“Requirement 4.7.11: Our homepage must look like a cryptic re-encoded URL for anyone that doesn't have a precisely on-range device” – you've been rifling through our bins again ;-)No, it shouldn't look like that. As you can see from the train times images – it should be getting a basic version which we can ensure works on every phone. So, yes, the front page for N86 should be filed under “bugs”.This is the first time in 6 years, to my knowledge, that C/B have crossed over. T(My opinions are my own and not those of any corporate behemoth)
To make the inevitable car analogy, if you buy your car from Ford but fit after-market wheels – they can't guarantee Ford tires will fit any more. Vodafone UK does what it can to support non-ranged handsets. Pop over to the Vodafone forums and you'll see plenty of people getting the right settings etc.However, I would agree that there needs to be a better “text-only” version of live.Regarding implementing it. Without going in to all our internal structures – Vodafone live runs in UK, France, Germany, South Africa, Romania, Austria, Netherlands and a dozen other countries. I'm not saying that running a mobile portal is like dealing with the United Nations, but making changes can be “complex”.Vodafone My Web is a completely new product specifically designed to work with as many handsets as possible. T(This is all my opinion and not that of any FTSE listed company)
To make the inevitable car analogy, if you buy your car from Ford but fit after-market wheels – they can't guarantee Ford tires will fit any more. Vodafone UK does what it can to support non-ranged handsets. Pop over to the Vodafone forums and you'll see plenty of people getting the right settings etc.However, I would agree that there needs to be a better “text-only” version of live.Regarding implementing it. Without going in to all our internal structures – Vodafone live runs in UK, France, Germany, South Africa, Romania, Austria, Netherlands and a dozen other countries. I'm not saying that running a mobile portal is like dealing with the United Nations, but making changes can be “complex”.Vodafone My Web is a completely new product specifically designed to work with as many handsets as possible. T(This is all my opinion and not that of any FTSE listed company)
To make the inevitable car analogy, if you buy your car from Ford but fit after-market wheels – they can't guarantee Ford tires will fit any more. Vodafone UK does what it can to support non-ranged handsets. Pop over to the Vodafone forums and you'll see plenty of people getting the right settings etc.However, I would agree that there needs to be a better “text-only” version of live.Regarding implementing it. Without going in to all our internal structures – Vodafone live runs in UK, France, Germany, South Africa, Romania, Austria, Netherlands and a dozen other countries. I'm not saying that running a mobile portal is like dealing with the United Nations, but making changes can be “complex”.Vodafone My Web is a completely new product specifically designed to work with as many handsets as possible. T(This is all my opinion and not that of any FTSE listed company)
To make the inevitable car analogy, if you buy your car from Ford but fit after-market wheels – they can't guarantee Ford tires will fit any more. Vodafone UK does what it can to support non-ranged handsets. Pop over to the Vodafone forums and you'll see plenty of people getting the right settings etc.However, I would agree that there needs to be a better “text-only” version of live.Regarding implementing it. Without going in to all our internal structures – Vodafone live runs in UK, France, Germany, South Africa, Romania, Austria, Netherlands and a dozen other countries. I'm not saying that running a mobile portal is like dealing with the United Nations, but making changes can be “complex”.Vodafone My Web is a completely new product specifically designed to work with as many handsets as possible. T(This is all my opinion and not that of any FTSE listed company)
But in this analogy Vodafone aren't a car manufacturer they are a road! If I buy a car I expect to be able to drive it on any road. It's not like James has turned up in a speedboat.Mippin don't have any issues supporting every handset, perhaps Vodafone's acquisitions team should have a whip-round?
But in this analogy Vodafone aren't a car manufacturer they are a road! If I buy a car I expect to be able to drive it on any road. It's not like James has turned up in a speedboat.Mippin don't have any issues supporting every handset, perhaps Vodafone's acquisitions team should have a whip-round?
But in this analogy Vodafone aren't a car manufacturer they are a road! If I buy a car I expect to be able to drive it on any road. It's not like James has turned up in a speedboat.Mippin don't have any issues supporting every handset, perhaps Vodafone's acquisitions team should have a whip-round?
“It’s not like James has turned up in a speedboat.”
It’s only a matter of time before he gets cast as Bond.
“It’s not like James has turned up in a speedboat.”
It’s only a matter of time before he gets cast as Bond.
Hi Lee,I definitely cant fault the service you personally provided me during all the issues I had with credit checks etc when signing up but what about data settings for SIM only customers?When I enquired how I obtain these for an N82 I was simple told that the N82 was not supported by Vodafone and to look at the forums. After searching around I found the GPRS settings but am still experiencing issues with MMS and its got to the stage where I simply cant be bothered anymore which means lost revenues for Vodafone.Vodafone should have a serious look at O2's SIM Only offering. The online billing was smooth and easily understood but most importantly everytime I put my SIM card in a new handset the WAP, mobile web and MMS settings were pushed to me straight away…Ed
Hi Lee,I definitely cant fault the service you personally provided me during all the issues I had with credit checks etc when signing up but what about data settings for SIM only customers?When I enquired how I obtain these for an N82 I was simple told that the N82 was not supported by Vodafone and to look at the forums. After searching around I found the GPRS settings but am still experiencing issues with MMS and its got to the stage where I simply cant be bothered anymore which means lost revenues for Vodafone.Vodafone should have a serious look at O2's SIM Only offering. The online billing was smooth and easily understood but most importantly everytime I put my SIM card in a new handset the WAP, mobile web and MMS settings were pushed to me straight away…Ed
Hi Lee,I definitely cant fault the service you personally provided me during all the issues I had with credit checks etc when signing up but what about data settings for SIM only customers?When I enquired how I obtain these for an N82 I was simple told that the N82 was not supported by Vodafone and to look at the forums. After searching around I found the GPRS settings but am still experiencing issues with MMS and its got to the stage where I simply cant be bothered anymore which means lost revenues for Vodafone.Vodafone should have a serious look at O2's SIM Only offering. The online billing was smooth and easily understood but most importantly everytime I put my SIM card in a new handset the WAP, mobile web and MMS settings were pushed to me straight away…Ed
Hi Lee,I definitely cant fault the service you personally provided me during all the issues I had with credit checks etc when signing up but what about data settings for SIM only customers?When I enquired how I obtain these for an N82 I was simple told that the N82 was not supported by Vodafone and to look at the forums. After searching around I found the GPRS settings but am still experiencing issues with MMS and its got to the stage where I simply cant be bothered anymore which means lost revenues for Vodafone.Vodafone should have a serious look at O2's SIM Only offering. The online billing was smooth and easily understood but most importantly everytime I put my SIM card in a new handset the WAP, mobile web and MMS settings were pushed to me straight away…Ed
oh i know this case from myself lol .. and guess what, Vodafone Austria gave me the same lame Excuses, so i jumped Ship to T-Mob few Months ago (well, the “device not on stock, so see how you get along with it yourself”-problem was one of the smaller ones).. not really a big fan of Vodafone anymore
oh i know this case from myself lol .. and guess what, Vodafone Austria gave me the same lame Excuses, so i jumped Ship to T-Mob few Months ago (well, the “device not on stock, so see how you get along with it yourself”-problem was one of the smaller ones).. not really a big fan of Vodafone anymore
oh i know this case from myself lol .. and guess what, Vodafone Austria gave me the same lame Excuses, so i jumped Ship to T-Mob few Months ago (well, the “device not on stock, so see how you get along with it yourself”-problem was one of the smaller ones).. not really a big fan of Vodafone anymore
oh i know this case from myself lol .. and guess what, Vodafone Austria gave me the same lame Excuses, so i jumped Ship to T-Mob few Months ago (well, the “device not on stock, so see how you get along with it yourself”-problem was one of the smaller ones).. not really a big fan of Vodafone anymore
We manage fine with a 2 person dev team using WUFL and our own historic data. If nothing can be done we degrade gracefully to a basic version.
We manage fine with a 2 person dev team using WUFL and our own historic data. If nothing can be done we degrade gracefully to a basic version.
We manage fine with a 2 person dev team using WUFL and our own historic data. If nothing can be done we degrade gracefully to a basic version.
We manage fine with a 2 person dev team using WUFL and our own historic data. If nothing can be done we degrade gracefully to a basic version.
UK Carriers are determined to ruin the mobile web for the foreseeable future, which I would like to rant about here but wont.
UK Carriers are determined to ruin the mobile web for the foreseeable future, which I would like to rant about here but wont.
UK Carriers are determined to ruin the mobile web for the foreseeable future, which I would like to rant about here but wont.
UK Carriers are determined to ruin the mobile web for the foreseeable future, which I would like to rant about here but wont.
kind of serves you right for a) liking Vodafone so much and b) not using a handset which Voda supports, no? In an ideal world where carrier portals were properly open, perhaps you should be surprised but we live in the real world where the dysfunctional carrier still reigns supreme (for the time being anyway)
kind of serves you right for a) liking Vodafone so much and b) not using a handset which Voda supports, no? In an ideal world where carrier portals were properly open, perhaps you should be surprised but we live in the real world where the dysfunctional carrier still reigns supreme (for the time being anyway)
kind of serves you right for a) liking Vodafone so much and b) not using a handset which Voda supports, no? In an ideal world where carrier portals were properly open, perhaps you should be surprised but we live in the real world where the dysfunctional carrier still reigns supreme (for the time being anyway)
“Then another one with updated firmware (have to keep the old firmware to test that with new features).”That must be why Vodafone's Nokia firmware updates take so long (or never arrive).
“Then another one with updated firmware (have to keep the old firmware to test that with new features).”That must be why Vodafone's Nokia firmware updates take so long (or never arrive).
“Then another one with updated firmware (have to keep the old firmware to test that with new features).”That must be why Vodafone's Nokia firmware updates take so long (or never arrive).
“Then another one with updated firmware (have to keep the old firmware to test that with new features).”That must be why Vodafone's Nokia firmware updates take so long (or never arrive).
T-mobile do the same thing.
T-mobile do the same thing.
T-mobile do the same thing.
T-mobile do the same thing.
“It's not like James has turned up in a speedboat.”It's only a matter of time before he gets cast as Bond.
“It's not like James has turned up in a speedboat.”It's only a matter of time before he gets cast as Bond.
“It's not like James has turned up in a speedboat.”It's only a matter of time before he gets cast as Bond.
“It's not like James has turned up in a speedboat.”It's only a matter of time before he gets cast as Bond.
I quite agree. As much as I love Mippin (they’re a major technology provider behind http://vodafone.com/myweb ) they’re not selling anything. No one rings their call centre up to complain when something isn’t compatible.
As I’ve said – I’d like to see a better basic version. But without being able to sell content through it, there’s little incentive to do so.
T
(These comments are my preciouseses – no one else’s)
I quite agree. As much as I love Mippin (they’re a major technology provider behind http://vodafone.com/myweb ) they’re not selling anything. No one rings their call centre up to complain when something isn’t compatible.
As I’ve said – I’d like to see a better basic version. But without being able to sell content through it, there’s little incentive to do so.
T
(These comments are my preciouseses – no one else’s)
In a word, yes.
In a word, yes.
I quite agree. As much as I love Mippin (they're a major technology provider behind http://vodafone.com/myweb ) they're not selling anything. No one rings their call centre up to complain when something isn't compatible.As I've said – I'd like to see a better basic version. But without being able to sell content through it, there's little incentive to do so.T(These comments are my preciouseses – no one else's)
I quite agree. As much as I love Mippin (they're a major technology provider behind http://vodafone.com/myweb ) they're not selling anything. No one rings their call centre up to complain when something isn't compatible.As I've said – I'd like to see a better basic version. But without being able to sell content through it, there's little incentive to do so.T(These comments are my preciouseses – no one else's)
I quite agree. As much as I love Mippin (they're a major technology provider behind http://vodafone.com/myweb ) they're not selling anything. No one rings their call centre up to complain when something isn't compatible.As I've said – I'd like to see a better basic version. But without being able to sell content through it, there's little incentive to do so.T(These comments are my preciouseses – no one else's)
I quite agree. As much as I love Mippin (they're a major technology provider behind http://vodafone.com/myweb ) they're not selling anything. No one rings their call centre up to complain when something isn't compatible.As I've said – I'd like to see a better basic version. But without being able to sell content through it, there's little incentive to do so.T(These comments are my preciouseses – no one else's)
In a word, yes.
In a word, yes.
In a word, yes.
Win. Saving that now.
Shame, doubt I’ll be heading back to VF Live! anytime soon…
Win. Saving that now.
Shame, doubt I’ll be heading back to VF Live! anytime soon…
Makes sense huh?
EXACTLY!
EXACTLY!
You can rant about it here properly if you’d like, you have my email buddy…
You can rant about it here properly if you’d like, you have my email buddy…
I appreciate the in-depth response, I do. However I only have one answer to one of your questions. Which is:”So, should we show links to the games, music, apps etc? Or should we remove them? Or should we show them, but on download present a warning that what you’ve bought may not work and there are no refunds if we don’t support your phone?”Yes. You should.”We don’t recognise your handset as a Vodafone Live! handset, we think the best service is X but cannot guarantee it will work 100%. If you’d like to talk to Vodafone about upgrading to a Vodafone Live! handset we do support, please call 08700 700 191 from your handset or click here to carry on.”Give the user the choice, offer to up-sell them AND include a call to action. Surely this is a better option than just having the service bork everytime I need to check my trains?
I appreciate the in-depth response, I do. However I only have one answer to one of your questions. Which is:”So, should we show links to the games, music, apps etc? Or should we remove them? Or should we show them, but on download present a warning that what you’ve bought may not work and there are no refunds if we don’t support your phone?”Yes. You should.”We don’t recognise your handset as a Vodafone Live! handset, we think the best service is X but cannot guarantee it will work 100%. If you’d like to talk to Vodafone about upgrading to a Vodafone Live! handset we do support, please call 08700 700 191 from your handset or click here to carry on.”Give the user the choice, offer to up-sell them AND include a call to action. Surely this is a better option than just having the service bork everytime I need to check my trains?
“As much as I love Mippin (they’re a major technology provider behind http://vodafone.com/myweb )”Um.. is that a Really Mobile exclusive?!:D
(that’s kind of awesome btw)
“As much as I love Mippin (they’re a major technology provider behind http://vodafone.com/myweb )”Um.. is that a Really Mobile exclusive?!:D
(that’s kind of awesome btw)
I must say Lee (and it’s something I’ve expressed privately to Terence too), even though a solution is yet to present itself, I do appreciate the time and effort Vodafone are taking to engage with this issue.
I’m looking forward to VF360, much.
I must say Lee (and it’s something I’ve expressed privately to Terence too), even though a solution is yet to present itself, I do appreciate the time and effort Vodafone are taking to engage with this issue.
I’m looking forward to VF360, much.
Serves me right for liking Vodafone so much? Eh?
I pay Vodafone a shed ton of cash every month to use their network, surely I – as the paying consumer – should be able to use whichever handset I choose.
Serves me right for liking Vodafone so much? Eh?
I pay Vodafone a shed ton of cash every month to use their network, surely I – as the paying consumer – should be able to use whichever handset I choose.
Like I said…in an ideal world your love affair with ‘Big Red’ may bear fruit. But we don’t and the only love you’ll get from an MNO will be fraught with trauma for quite some time to come.
Good luck though. Looks like Voda’s CSR are observing. Keep up the pressure!
Like I said…in an ideal world your love affair with ‘Big Red’ may bear fruit. But we don’t and the only love you’ll get from an MNO will be fraught with trauma for quite some time to come.
Good luck though. Looks like Voda’s CSR are observing. Keep up the pressure!
Win. Saving that now. Shame, doubt I'll be heading back to VF Live! anytime soon…
Win. Saving that now. Shame, doubt I'll be heading back to VF Live! anytime soon…
Makes sense huh?
Makes sense huh?
Makes sense huh?
Win. Saving that now. Shame, doubt I'll be heading back to VF Live! anytime soon…
Win. Saving that now. Shame, doubt I'll be heading back to VF Live! anytime soon…
EXACTLY!
EXACTLY!
EXACTLY!
EXACTLY!
You can rant about it here properly if you'd like, you have my email buddy…
You can rant about it here properly if you'd like, you have my email buddy…
You can rant about it here properly if you'd like, you have my email buddy…
You can rant about it here properly if you'd like, you have my email buddy…
I appreciate the in-depth response, I do. However I only have one answer to one of your questions. Which is:”So, should we show links to the games, music, apps etc? Or should we remove them? Or should we show them, but on download present a warning that what you've bought may not work and there are no refunds if we don't support your phone?”Yes. You should.”We don't recognise your handset as a Vodafone Live! handset, we think the best service is X but cannot guarantee it will work 100%. If you'd like to talk to Vodafone about upgrading to a Vodafone Live! handset we do support, please call 08700 700 191 from your handset or click here to carry on.”Give the user the choice, offer to up-sell them AND include a call to action. Surely this is a better option than just having the service bork everytime I need to check my trains?
I appreciate the in-depth response, I do. However I only have one answer to one of your questions. Which is:”So, should we show links to the games, music, apps etc? Or should we remove them? Or should we show them, but on download present a warning that what you've bought may not work and there are no refunds if we don't support your phone?”Yes. You should.”We don't recognise your handset as a Vodafone Live! handset, we think the best service is X but cannot guarantee it will work 100%. If you'd like to talk to Vodafone about upgrading to a Vodafone Live! handset we do support, please call 08700 700 191 from your handset or click here to carry on.”Give the user the choice, offer to up-sell them AND include a call to action. Surely this is a better option than just having the service bork everytime I need to check my trains?
I appreciate the in-depth response, I do. However I only have one answer to one of your questions. Which is:”So, should we show links to the games, music, apps etc? Or should we remove them? Or should we show them, but on download present a warning that what you've bought may not work and there are no refunds if we don't support your phone?”Yes. You should.”We don't recognise your handset as a Vodafone Live! handset, we think the best service is X but cannot guarantee it will work 100%. If you'd like to talk to Vodafone about upgrading to a Vodafone Live! handset we do support, please call 08700 700 191 from your handset or click here to carry on.”Give the user the choice, offer to up-sell them AND include a call to action. Surely this is a better option than just having the service bork everytime I need to check my trains?
I appreciate the in-depth response, I do. However I only have one answer to one of your questions. Which is:”So, should we show links to the games, music, apps etc? Or should we remove them? Or should we show them, but on download present a warning that what you've bought may not work and there are no refunds if we don't support your phone?”Yes. You should.”We don't recognise your handset as a Vodafone Live! handset, we think the best service is X but cannot guarantee it will work 100%. If you'd like to talk to Vodafone about upgrading to a Vodafone Live! handset we do support, please call 08700 700 191 from your handset or click here to carry on.”Give the user the choice, offer to up-sell them AND include a call to action. Surely this is a better option than just having the service bork everytime I need to check my trains?
“As much as I love Mippin (they're a major technology provider behind http://vodafone.com/myweb )”Um.. is that a Really Mobile exclusive?!:D(that's kind of awesome btw)
“As much as I love Mippin (they're a major technology provider behind http://vodafone.com/myweb )”Um.. is that a Really Mobile exclusive?!:D(that's kind of awesome btw)
“As much as I love Mippin (they're a major technology provider behind http://vodafone.com/myweb )”Um.. is that a Really Mobile exclusive?!:D(that's kind of awesome btw)
“As much as I love Mippin (they're a major technology provider behind http://vodafone.com/myweb )”Um.. is that a Really Mobile exclusive?!:D(that's kind of awesome btw)
I must say Lee (and it's something I've expressed privately to Terence too), even though a solution is yet to present itself, I do appreciate the time and effort Vodafone are taking to engage with this issue. I'm looking forward to VF360, much.
I must say Lee (and it's something I've expressed privately to Terence too), even though a solution is yet to present itself, I do appreciate the time and effort Vodafone are taking to engage with this issue. I'm looking forward to VF360, much.
I must say Lee (and it's something I've expressed privately to Terence too), even though a solution is yet to present itself, I do appreciate the time and effort Vodafone are taking to engage with this issue. I'm looking forward to VF360, much.
I must say Lee (and it's something I've expressed privately to Terence too), even though a solution is yet to present itself, I do appreciate the time and effort Vodafone are taking to engage with this issue. I'm looking forward to VF360, much.
Serves me right for liking Vodafone so much? Eh? I pay Vodafone a shed ton of cash every month to use their network, surely I – as the paying consumer – should be able to use whichever handset I choose.
Serves me right for liking Vodafone so much? Eh? I pay Vodafone a shed ton of cash every month to use their network, surely I – as the paying consumer – should be able to use whichever handset I choose.
Serves me right for liking Vodafone so much? Eh? I pay Vodafone a shed ton of cash every month to use their network, surely I – as the paying consumer – should be able to use whichever handset I choose.
Serves me right for liking Vodafone so much? Eh? I pay Vodafone a shed ton of cash every month to use their network, surely I – as the paying consumer – should be able to use whichever handset I choose.
Like I said…in an ideal world your love affair with 'Big Red' may bear fruit. But we don't and the only love you'll get from an MNO will be fraught with trauma for quite some time to come.Good luck though. Looks like Voda's CSR are observing. Keep up the pressure!
Like I said…in an ideal world your love affair with 'Big Red' may bear fruit. But we don't and the only love you'll get from an MNO will be fraught with trauma for quite some time to come.Good luck though. Looks like Voda's CSR are observing. Keep up the pressure!
Like I said…in an ideal world your love affair with 'Big Red' may bear fruit. But we don't and the only love you'll get from an MNO will be fraught with trauma for quite some time to come.Good luck though. Looks like Voda's CSR are observing. Keep up the pressure!
Like I said…in an ideal world your love affair with 'Big Red' may bear fruit. But we don't and the only love you'll get from an MNO will be fraught with trauma for quite some time to come.Good luck though. Looks like Voda's CSR are observing. Keep up the pressure!
Hi Ed,
Thanks again for the kind comments. It’s always nice to read appreciative words about the work of the Web Relations Team.
The eForum is great place where customers can go to for help with a whole range of technical queries and while the assistance the guys on there may sometimes be limited when dealing with phones which we don’t range they are always willing to help in anyway they can.
As I don’t know whether you’re aware but there is some information on the eForum which takes customers through the set up processes for WAP and Internet settings however we naturally can’t guarantee the same experience on all phones.
As I wasn’t aware that you were having problems with MMS service I’ll pick this up and come back to you once I’ve taken a look at closer look at things.
We always aim to provide value for money and our price plan offerings are always being reviewed to ensure they’re competitive. While we don’t push settings to phones at the point the SIM is inserted all of our phone do come pre-configured for WAP, Internet and MMS.
All the best.
Lee
Web Relations Team
Vodafone UK
Hi Ed,
Thanks again for the kind comments. It’s always nice to read appreciative words about the work of the Web Relations Team.
The eForum is great place where customers can go to for help with a whole range of technical queries and while the assistance the guys on there may sometimes be limited when dealing with phones which we don’t range they are always willing to help in anyway they can.
As I don’t know whether you’re aware but there is some information on the eForum which takes customers through the set up processes for WAP and Internet settings however we naturally can’t guarantee the same experience on all phones.
As I wasn’t aware that you were having problems with MMS service I’ll pick this up and come back to you once I’ve taken a look at closer look at things.
We always aim to provide value for money and our price plan offerings are always being reviewed to ensure they’re competitive. While we don’t push settings to phones at the point the SIM is inserted all of our phone do come pre-configured for WAP, Internet and MMS.
All the best.
Lee
Web Relations Team
Vodafone UK
Hi James,
It’s a pleasure as always.
Be sure to let us know what you think about Vodafone 360 once it’s been launched.
All the best.
Lee
Web Relations Team
Vodafone UK
Hi James,
It’s a pleasure as always.
Be sure to let us know what you think about Vodafone 360 once it’s been launched.
All the best.
Lee
Web Relations Team
Vodafone UK
Hi Ed,
I just thought I’d come back to correct something in my last post.
Earlier this year Vodafone did embark on a project whereby Over The Air (OTA) settings were sent automatically to a customer for Vodafone Live! and MMS after they had put their SIM in a new phone.
Of course, this would only work in the event that we had OTA settings for the phone which mainly covers phones we’re currently stocking and have previously stocked.
Thanks,
Lee
Web Relations Team
Vodafone UK
Hi Ed,
I just thought I’d come back to correct something in my last post.
Earlier this year Vodafone did embark on a project whereby Over The Air (OTA) settings were sent automatically to a customer for Vodafone Live! and MMS after they had put their SIM in a new phone.
Of course, this would only work in the event that we had OTA settings for the phone which mainly covers phones we’re currently stocking and have previously stocked.
Thanks,
Lee
Web Relations Team
Vodafone UK
Hi Ed,Thanks again for the kind comments. It's always nice to read appreciative words about the work of the Web Relations Team.The eForum is great place where customers can go to for help with a whole range of technical queries and while the assistance the guys on there may sometimes be limited when dealing with phones which we don't range they are always willing to help in anyway they can.As I don't know whether you're aware but there is some information on the eForum which takes customers through the set up processes for WAP and Internet settings however we naturally can't guarantee the same experience on all phones.As I wasn't aware that you were having problems with MMS service I'll pick this up and come back to you once I've taken a look at closer look at things.We always aim to provide value for money and our price plan offerings are always being reviewed to ensure they're competitive. While we don't push settings to phones at the point the SIM is inserted all of our phone do come pre-configured for WAP, Internet and MMS.All the best.LeeWeb Relations TeamVodafone UK
Hi Ed,Thanks again for the kind comments. It's always nice to read appreciative words about the work of the Web Relations Team.The eForum is great place where customers can go to for help with a whole range of technical queries and while the assistance the guys on there may sometimes be limited when dealing with phones which we don't range they are always willing to help in anyway they can.As I don't know whether you're aware but there is some information on the eForum which takes customers through the set up processes for WAP and Internet settings however we naturally can't guarantee the same experience on all phones.As I wasn't aware that you were having problems with MMS service I'll pick this up and come back to you once I've taken a look at closer look at things.We always aim to provide value for money and our price plan offerings are always being reviewed to ensure they're competitive. While we don't push settings to phones at the point the SIM is inserted all of our phone do come pre-configured for WAP, Internet and MMS.All the best.LeeWeb Relations TeamVodafone UK
Hi Ed,Thanks again for the kind comments. It's always nice to read appreciative words about the work of the Web Relations Team.The eForum is great place where customers can go to for help with a whole range of technical queries and while the assistance the guys on there may sometimes be limited when dealing with phones which we don't range they are always willing to help in anyway they can.As I don't know whether you're aware but there is some information on the eForum which takes customers through the set up processes for WAP and Internet settings however we naturally can't guarantee the same experience on all phones.As I wasn't aware that you were having problems with MMS service I'll pick this up and come back to you once I've taken a look at closer look at things.We always aim to provide value for money and our price plan offerings are always being reviewed to ensure they're competitive. While we don't push settings to phones at the point the SIM is inserted all of our phone do come pre-configured for WAP, Internet and MMS.All the best.LeeWeb Relations TeamVodafone UK
Hi Ed,Thanks again for the kind comments. It's always nice to read appreciative words about the work of the Web Relations Team.The eForum is great place where customers can go to for help with a whole range of technical queries and while the assistance the guys on there may sometimes be limited when dealing with phones which we don't range they are always willing to help in anyway they can.As I don't know whether you're aware but there is some information on the eForum which takes customers through the set up processes for WAP and Internet settings however we naturally can't guarantee the same experience on all phones.As I wasn't aware that you were having problems with MMS service I'll pick this up and come back to you once I've taken a look at closer look at things.We always aim to provide value for money and our price plan offerings are always being reviewed to ensure they're competitive. While we don't push settings to phones at the point the SIM is inserted all of our phone do come pre-configured for WAP, Internet and MMS.All the best.LeeWeb Relations TeamVodafone UK
Hi James,It's a pleasure as always.Be sure to let us know what you think about Vodafone 360 once it's been launched.All the best.LeeWeb Relations TeamVodafone UK
Hi James,It's a pleasure as always.Be sure to let us know what you think about Vodafone 360 once it's been launched.All the best.LeeWeb Relations TeamVodafone UK
Hi James,It's a pleasure as always.Be sure to let us know what you think about Vodafone 360 once it's been launched.All the best.LeeWeb Relations TeamVodafone UK
Hi Ed,I just thought I'd come back to correct something in my last post.Earlier this year Vodafone did embark on a project whereby Over The Air (OTA) settings were sent automatically to a customer for Vodafone Live! and MMS after they had put their SIM in a new phone. Of course, this would only work in the event that we had OTA settings for the phone which mainly covers phones we're currently stocking and have previously stocked.Thanks,LeeWeb Relations TeamVodafone UK
Hi Ed,I just thought I'd come back to correct something in my last post.Earlier this year Vodafone did embark on a project whereby Over The Air (OTA) settings were sent automatically to a customer for Vodafone Live! and MMS after they had put their SIM in a new phone. Of course, this would only work in the event that we had OTA settings for the phone which mainly covers phones we're currently stocking and have previously stocked.Thanks,LeeWeb Relations TeamVodafone UK
Hi Ed,I just thought I'd come back to correct something in my last post.Earlier this year Vodafone did embark on a project whereby Over The Air (OTA) settings were sent automatically to a customer for Vodafone Live! and MMS after they had put their SIM in a new phone. Of course, this would only work in the event that we had OTA settings for the phone which mainly covers phones we're currently stocking and have previously stocked.Thanks,LeeWeb Relations TeamVodafone UK
Hi Ed,I just thought I'd come back to correct something in my last post.Earlier this year Vodafone did embark on a project whereby Over The Air (OTA) settings were sent automatically to a customer for Vodafone Live! and MMS after they had put their SIM in a new phone. Of course, this would only work in the event that we had OTA settings for the phone which mainly covers phones we're currently stocking and have previously stocked.Thanks,LeeWeb Relations TeamVodafone UK
Rather late in the day, but I had this problem with a nokia n95-3 made for the american market. My solution was to change the user agent string via the x-plore option. (google user agent). It is still used via python these days to enable my n97 to see pages as if it were an iphone as the pages are rendered in a more readable option.
Rather late in the day, but I had this problem with a nokia n95-3 made for the american market. My solution was to change the user agent string via the x-plore option. (google user agent). It is still used via python these days to enable my n97 to see pages as if it were an iphone as the pages are rendered in a more readable option.
James… I had a feeling something was wrong. I returned to Big Red (i also call them) in June with a Samsung tocco ultra. Got fed up with the battery and bought an N86 (white) Vodafone live! Just wont load. I’m yet to call Big Red to talk about this.
James… I had a feeling something was wrong. I returned to Big Red (i also call them) in June with a Samsung tocco ultra. Got fed up with the battery and bought an N86 (white) Vodafone live! Just wont load. I’m yet to call Big Red to talk about this.
James has updated the post – Vodafone have fixed this now.
James has updated the post – Vodafone have fixed this now.
‘the x-plore option’ – do tell
‘the x-plore option’ – do tell
Rather late in the day, but I had this problem with a nokia n95-3 made for the american market. My solution was to change the user agent string via the x-plore option. (google user agent). It is still used via python these days to enable my n97 to see pages as if it were an iphone as the pages are rendered in a more readable option.
Rather late in the day, but I had this problem with a nokia n95-3 made for the american market. My solution was to change the user agent string via the x-plore option. (google user agent). It is still used via python these days to enable my n97 to see pages as if it were an iphone as the pages are rendered in a more readable option.
Rather late in the day, but I had this problem with a nokia n95-3 made for the american market. My solution was to change the user agent string via the x-plore option. (google user agent). It is still used via python these days to enable my n97 to see pages as if it were an iphone as the pages are rendered in a more readable option.
Rather late in the day, but I had this problem with a nokia n95-3 made for the american market. My solution was to change the user agent string via the x-plore option. (google user agent). It is still used via python these days to enable my n97 to see pages as if it were an iphone as the pages are rendered in a more readable option.
James… I had a feeling something was wrong. I returned to Big Red (i also call them) in June with a Samsung tocco ultra. Got fed up with the battery and bought an N86 (white) Vodafone live! Just wont load. I'm yet to call Big Red to talk about this.
James… I had a feeling something was wrong. I returned to Big Red (i also call them) in June with a Samsung tocco ultra. Got fed up with the battery and bought an N86 (white) Vodafone live! Just wont load. I'm yet to call Big Red to talk about this.
James… I had a feeling something was wrong. I returned to Big Red (i also call them) in June with a Samsung tocco ultra. Got fed up with the battery and bought an N86 (white) Vodafone live! Just wont load. I'm yet to call Big Red to talk about this.
James… I had a feeling something was wrong. I returned to Big Red (i also call them) in June with a Samsung tocco ultra. Got fed up with the battery and bought an N86 (white) Vodafone live! Just wont load. I'm yet to call Big Red to talk about this.
Umm… OK people. I just tried again on my N86. And it does actually work! lil confused. It did fuss a lil about it but I have the Live! home page.http://www.live.vodafone.comit showed page error…Click on “Back”it takes us to web & email page…just click Home.Let me know if anyone else gets this please.
Umm… OK people. I just tried again on my N86. And it does actually work! lil confused. It did fuss a lil about it but I have the Live! home page.http://www.live.vodafone.comit showed page error…Click on “Back”it takes us to web & email page…just click Home.Let me know if anyone else gets this please.
Umm… OK people. I just tried again on my N86. And it does actually work! lil confused. It did fuss a lil about it but I have the Live! home page.http://www.live.vodafone.comit showed page error…Click on “Back”it takes us to web & email page…just click Home.Let me know if anyone else gets this please.
Umm… OK people. I just tried again on my N86. And it does actually work! lil confused. It did fuss a lil about it but I have the Live! home page.http://www.live.vodafone.comit showed page error…Click on “Back”it takes us to web & email page…just click Home.Let me know if anyone else gets this please.
James has updated the post – Vodafone have fixed this now.
James has updated the post – Vodafone have fixed this now.
James has updated the post – Vodafone have fixed this now.
James has updated the post – Vodafone have fixed this now.
'the x-plore option' – do tell
'the x-plore option' – do tell
'the x-plore option' – do tell
'the x-plore option' – do tell